Roe V Wade is overturned

[neurosis]

Now this is going to sound rude, but it is true. Pro-slavery people

What was the population when that was the concern? And was our politics the same as it is today?

[Smit]

I can't deny that I think highly of pro-life people. I'm sorry that you don't, we should go fishing sometime and maybe I can change your mind.

As I said, it's absolutely fine. I'd be happy to go fishing with you but I already think pretty highly of you personally so it would just be for fun.

Having said that, I'm sure pro life people are just like all the other types...some absolutely wonderful and some much less so. Just like everybody else.

[beej]

What was the population when that was the concern? And was our politics the same as it is today?

I'm sorry I don't understand the question, do you mean Population of the US? world? black people?

as far as politics being the same, I would say that in someways it is different today and some ways it is the same. One of the reasons people wanted to protect slavery was because they wanted to protect their livelihood. and some people who want abortion want to protect theirs as well.

People who wanted slavery were stoutly against government telling them what they could and couldn't do on their property. Similar to the argument of my body, my choice.

People who wanted slavery denied the personhood of a black person. similar to what pro-abortion people do with a human fetus.

people who wanted slavery used the word freedom to mean that they should have the freedom to do what they want while denying those same freedoms to black people. Pro-abortion people want the freedom and autonomy to give themselves the life they want, while denying freedom to the human fetus.

[beej]

As I said, it's absolutely fine. I'd be happy to go fishing with you but I already think pretty highly of you personally so it would just be for fun.

Having said that, I'm sure pro life people are just like all the other types...some absolutely wonderful and some much less so. Just like everybody else.

I'm going to be trout fishing for a week at Montauk State Park in October, you should come if you can.

[YoDoug]

I did see that. You seem to think highly of pro life people, which is fine. I will state the obvious in that I'm sure many of those donations come from pro choice people too.

But as Neuro says, it's not going to be enough. Free diapers and formula is helpful but child care so a parent can get an education is more important in the long run. Making sure the child has a better shot at a quality life by providing them a good environment to grow and learn is more important in the long run. The same government that makes abortion illegal, even in case of rape, incest, genetic disorders, etc should step up.

So I expect I'll see lots of bills in red states to help achieve those goals.

We have a niece in a red state that got married at the age of 16 to a deadbeat. They had two kids in two years then he started abusing her. She divorced him but because he is a perpetual drug addict and can't keep a job, she gets no child support. She never finished high school. She is the exact case you are talking about. How do you ensure those kids will be raised in an environment that gives them a chance at success.

Now, as Paul Harvey would say, here is the rest of the story. She gets food assistance, rent assistance, free medical insurance, welfare payment, free childcare when she occasionally works, and free tuition when she toyed with the idea of going back to school. She qualifies for every job training, job search, and employment search benefit there is. The social safety net is huge. She could get free transportation to and from school with free tuition and free childcare to go to school, all while receiving the previously mentioned benefits. Some of her family have done all of the research, found all the programs, applications, contact people, etc. for her to take advantage. However, sitting around, hanging out with friends, and taking the social support is what she prefers.

The argument that the help needed to improve those lives doesn't exist is false. If you are a single mother living at poverty level, especially a minority in an urban location, all you have to do is reach out to social services and you will be assigned a case worker/advocate that will help you find all of the help that you could want.

Now if you want to make an argument that an increased baby boom from low income mothers because of lack of abortion availability will overload the existing social services, I'll agree that it could possibly happen.

[crazy^millman]

The same government that makes abortion illegal, even in case of rape, incest, genetic disorders, etc should step up.

So I expect I'll see lots of bills in red states to help achieve those goals.

There you go spouting off ignorance and talking points of the Left Smit. Read what I posted and where there are provisions for such instances. Science told us our Daughter would be born with a genetic disorder and to abort her. We choose to have here and she is a wonderful and healthy young woman. How many of the millions of abortions were because of these issues?

[neurosis]

Now if you want to make an argument that an increased baby boom from low income mothers because of lack of abortion availability will overload the existing social services, I'll agree that it could possibly happen.

That is the exact point that I am trying to make and why I added the chicken little clause in to the conversation. We just don't know at this point but when you have a party that runs on the platform of reducing spending on these social safety nets while pushing legislation that almost guarantees to put a higher burden on them, it's not too far of a stretch to assume that this isn't going to end well.

[beej]

That is the exact point that I am trying to make and why I added the chicken little clause in to the conversation. We just don't know at this point but when you have a party that runs on the platform of reducing spending on these social safety nets while pushing legislation that almost guarantees to put a higher burden on them, it's not too far of a stretch to assume that this isn't going to end well.

I have a family member that has been living with her fiance for 13 years. He is a highschool principal in Illinois. they could get married but they don't because if they each stay single, she can be on Medicaid instead of having to pay a few hundred dollars a month to be on his insurance. (which is pretty good insurance but it's not as good as free).  She has 3 kids. She get's government aid for those kids. But she doesn't really need it. They do pretty well just on his salary. They told us last month they have found a way to satisfy their church and their budget, by getting married in the church but without getting a state marriage certificate.

this is what republican want to end. And what they are doing is bad not only for the middle class tax payer but for poor people as well who really need the assistance. I don't know how you clean up that kind of waste without hurting the poor, but I know it needs to be cleaned up. That's just a single example of government waste, I know there are millions more.

[YoDoug]

I have a family member that has been living with her fiance for 13 years. He is a highschool principal in Illinois. they could get married but they don't because if they each stay single, she can be on Medicaid instead of having to pay a few hundred dollars a month to be on his insurance. (which is pretty good insurance but it's not as good as free).  She has 3 kids. She get's government aid for those kids. But she doesn't really need it. They do pretty well just on his salary. They told us last month they have found a way to satisfy their church and their budget, by getting married in the church but without getting a state marriage certificate.

this is what republican want to end. And what they are doing is bad not only for the middle class tax payer but for poor people as well who really need the assistance. I don't know how you clean up that kind of waste without hurting the poor, but I know it needs to be cleaned up. That's just a single example of government waste, I know there are millions more.

A couple years ago the Republicans in the MN state legislature did an investigation and found that something like 60% of people receiving benefits from the state were not eligible anymore but were still receiving them based on years old data. The democrat majority squashed any attempts to force people to have to re-submit their docs for eligibility annually.

https://www.mnsenaterepublicans.com/senate-republicans-propose-independent-state-agency-to-root-out-fraud-in-department-of-human-services-programs/

[Matthew Hajicek]

If you care what people think:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

The vast majority of Americans support legal abortions in at least certain circumstances.

[neurosis]

The vast majority of Americans support legal abortions in at least certain circumstances.

I have several female friends on facebook that over night went from "FJB" to "My uterus my choice". 

I don't know how much Women's voices matter to Republicans in this Country, but I think that they just lost a large majority of them.

[Del.]

If you care what people think:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

The vast majority of Americans support legal abortions in at least certain circumstances.

That's the way I feel. Just not repeated abortions because you can.

[Incogneeto]

That's the way I feel. Just not repeated abortions because you can.

Smart Idea.

You can only file Bankruptcy once every seven years.

In Compromise it would be available But Restricted.

would be a win in both ways, Less misuse.

[DUM1]

you would think one per person per life time would be more than enough
just saying the word or thinking it is revolting ,
tearing a baby apart piece by piece to remove it ? really?!?!

I can see extreme cases being permitted in late term and also in early term if absolutely necessary
medical or unlawful circumstances dictated
but repeatedly is just murder in my book.

[neurosis]

tearing a baby apart piece by piece to remove it ? really?!?!

When we talk about rhetoric and the language used to defend a position, this is exactly what people mean.  The minority is on board with this type of abortion. If someone takes the day after pill, they aren't "tearing a baby apart piece by piece". 

The problem with political discussions these days in the amount of hyperbole involved.  We take the worst cases and talk about them as if they are the norm and then use them as the examples of why we should or shouldn't do them.