Beverage pretending to be beer features a man pretending to be a woman

[beej]

I guess if Hitler, Mao, and Stalin would have accepted Jesus into their lives they might have been better humans but I don't think they are a good example to use for comparison purposes.

Perhaps a list of secular countries that currently exist in peace and prosperity would be a better comparison?

Fair enough, but since he was talking about the worst examples of Christianity rather than the best of it, I thought that I would do the same with atheism. If you want to compare the best of atheism to the best of Christianity, I would gladly accept that debate.

[neurosis]

I can honestly say I've never been there
I don't even know what it is

That doesn't surprise me. I don't think that it would be your cup of tea.

It's like a massive forum with endless categories, most of which are moderated by leftists. Most of the popular subredits anyway. It is heavily voter based so if you say something that goes against the grain of what ever the current groupthink du jour is you get down voted to the point of not being able to post in that group anymore. That's if you don't get censored by the moderators first. It really discourages creative discussions but you also don't see people attacking each other like you do on some social media.

There are some Conservative subredits but not many.

[mkd]

I can honestly say I've never been there
I don't even know what it is

it's the defacto repository of technical help online in a forum format, you miserable Luddite. hahaha

[Smit]

Fair enough, but since he was talking about the worst examples of Christianity rather than the best of it, I thought that I would do the same with atheism..

But I don't think he was talking about the "worst" of Christianity. I think he was talking about the people you commonly meet in every day life.

Throughout history the people who have used the bible, or religion in general, to justify horrific deeds is prolific. I don't think there's much to debate there.

I also don't know of any pure theocracy that has worked out well for everybody in the long term. Other than the people at the top.

To me the best thing about the bible is people can use it as a guideline to being good humans. Not many people will argue the 10 commandments are a bad guideline.

Hopefully we can agree that there are some Christians who are not really good humans.

And hopefully we can also agree there are many, I'd suggest most, atheists who are also good humans.

I think the average number of atheists who are good, moral people is probably about the same as the average of Christians who are good, moral people.

For an every day example I'll mention a guy I worked with a while ago, he's since retired. He would tell everybody proudly that he was a pastor at his local baptist church. I was like, alright, good for you if that's what you want to do. Until one day we had a short conversation about how he felt about other religions, races, immigrants, gays, etc. I guess he felt I would be a good audience because I'm an older white guy. He was just filled with Godly indignation (hate) that those things were allowed to exist and we need to put a stop to it.  That's what I'd call a stereotypical Republican (Trump) evangelist.

I told him that if I were to ever step into a church for a sermon again it goddamn well wouldn't be his church. Happily that was the last sermon he blessed me with.

[mkd]

He was just filled with Godly indignation (hate) that those things were allowed to exist and we need to put a stop to it.  That's what I'd call a stereotypical Republican (Trump) evangelist.

shocked that you actually gave a position a subject. Kudos.
Is it possible that you placed your own bias on what he was saying? Whether we admit it our not, if you have a functional brain, as in amoeba level response to stimuli as proof of life, you discriminate on the environment.
Is it hate to discriminate against the section of Quran or their practitioners that promote marring-off 9 year old girls, as an example that many would agree with discriminating against?
 Furthermore the historically and factually irrefutable racist origins of the modern Democratic party and Trump complete lack of anything racist compared to crap Killary/Biden?etc etc etc have said in modern times. Please supoort you calling Trumpsters racist with actual facts.

[Smit]

Well, it was all going soooo well, then your TDS bitcha!

Why don't you go back over to the conspiracy theory forum where you belong and not crap up this thread? 

[Jim at Gentex]

Hopefully we can agree that there are some Christians who are not really good humans.

And hopefully we can also agree there are many, I'd suggest most, atheists who are also good humans.

The Biblical point of view starts here:
Romans 3:10-12 starts from the position that NOBODY is good (i.e., 'righteous') in and of themselves.

10as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;
11no one understands; no one seeks for God.
12All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."
(...btw, the Apostle Paul who wrote those words included himself in the 'ALL' he was talking about.)

So that 'pastor' you were talking to apparently did not even know the first basic principle of Christian doctrine.
The Scriptures teach us that all humans are born sinners, and therefore we need to claim the righteousness of Christ because we have NO RIGHTEOUSNESS of our own.

I don't blame you a bit for pointing out the hypocrisy of a guy like that, and please understand that he DOES NOT represent all Christians in any way, shape, or form. 

[mkd]

Why don't you go back over to the conspiracy theory forum where you belong and not crap up this thread? 

I'll meet you over to your forum where critical thinking and balancing various factors are automatically racist hate.

[RobertELee]

Does this mean that there is going to be a JD boycott now?   

Already have been, the stuff tastes like shit.

[Smit]

I don't blame you a bit for pointing out the hypocrisy of a guy like that, and please understand that he DOES NOT represent all Christians in any way, shape, or form. 

Oh yeah, I know many Christians who are very good people. The vast majority I think. I have many Christians in my own family, good people all. I tried to make that clear in the other post.

I'll meet you over to your forum where critical thinking and balancing various factors are automatically racist hate.

You won't want to be there. You'd stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. Critical thinking isn't your strong suit. If you can find a provocateur forum you'll fit well there.

[beej]

But I don't think he was talking about the "worst" of Christianity. I think he was talking about the people you commonly meet in every day life.

Throughout history the people who have used the bible, or religion in general, to justify horrific deeds is prolific. I don't think there's much to debate there.

I also don't know of any pure theocracy that has worked out well for everybody in the long term. Other than the people at the top.

To me the best thing about the bible is people can use it as a guideline to being good humans. Not many people will argue the 10 commandments are a bad guideline.

Hopefully we can agree that there are some Christians who are not really good humans.

And hopefully we can also agree there are many, I'd suggest most, atheists who are also good humans.

I think the average number of atheists who are good, moral people is probably about the same as the average of Christians who are good, moral people.

For an every day example I'll mention a guy I worked with a while ago, he's since retired. He would tell everybody proudly that he was a pastor at his local baptist church. I was like, alright, good for you if that's what you want to do. Until one day we had a short conversation about how he felt about other religions, races, immigrants, gays, etc. I guess he felt I would be a good audience because I'm an older white guy. He was just filled with Godly indignation (hate) that those things were allowed to exist and we need to put a stop to it.  That's what I'd call a stereotypical Republican (Trump) evangelist.

I told him that if I were to ever step into a church for a sermon again it goddamn well wouldn't be his church. Happily that was the last sermon he blessed me with.

I agree with a lot of that post. I would never advocate for a Theocracy. If a  church has a worthy ideal, it should stand alone from government rather than propped up by it.

As far as recognizing that there are some bad Christians, obviously, yes. I spend plenty of time frustrated by some who are in my own denomination. And if I were completely honest frustrated by my own behavior, as well. But Christians are not the only ones that are condescending. Atheists are also highly condescending. It is just towards other people. I don't stomach that well, no matter what their beliefs are, Christian or non christian.

But if you see an atheist living a moral life, where do those morals come from, or maybe a better way of putting it, What do you base your judgment, that they are living a moral life on? Isn't that from historic Christian principals?

When you see a Christian act in some repulsive way, they are almost always acting against the tenants of their own faith.  If you see an atheist act in some repulsive way, what are they acting against.

[gcode]

Hopefully we can agree that there are some Christians who are not really good humans.

I would say there are some not good humans who hide behind the Christian label

[mkd]

is'nt it more hateful to not hate tenents and practitioners of a religion that advocate for selling your 9 year old daughter to your second cousin in exchange for a goat?

[beej]

is'nt it more hateful to not hate tenents and practitioners of a religion that advocate for selling your 9 year old daughter to your second cousin in exchange for a goat?

yes-no-no-yes-no wait! what?

[Smit]

But if you see an atheist living a moral life, where do those morals come from, or maybe a better way of putting it, What do you base your judgment, that they are living a moral life on? Isn't that from historic Christian principals?

When you see a Christian act in some repulsive way, they are almost always acting against the tenants of their own faith.  If you see an atheist act in some repulsive way, what are they acting against.

Let's not overthink it. All societies have societal norms. Includng the US.