AI predicts the end of meat!

[YoDoug]

Look I think we need to find some common ground here. Regardless of God's created diet or how the fall effected it, I think we can all agree.......

it is all Eve's (woman) fault! 

[beej]

If we are to believe that the bible is the holy word of God, and that God cannot lie, is absolute truth, then you cannot claim that Genesis 1:29-30 is not a true and accurate instruction from God of how he wanted mankind to eat.

https://answersingenesis.org/animal-behavior/what-animals-eat/creations-original-diet-and-the-changes-at-the-fall/

1) It's not that hard to dispute, first of all, God himself, Namely Jesus. Ate meat and fish, as we have already established. that in and of itself tells me that there is nothing inherently wrong about eating fish and meat in God's eyes.

2) but then to contend with the verse that you keep bringing up God says to Adam, "Here are all the herbs, God told them, that seed on earth, and all the trees, that carry in them the seeds of their own life, to be your food."

Now in that statement he doesn't mention meat. He doesn't say "eat it" or "don't eat it." when he didn't want them to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he said it specifically. "Don't eat that fruit." With meat, he makes no mention at all. 

Now I could be working out in my garden and planting tomato plants with my grandkids and tell them this is to be your food. that would not imply that my instructions were eat this and only this. It's just a simple statement that this will be good to eat when it is ripe.

3) you could also argue that when God said this is to be your food, that what he meant was, this is to be your food for right now.

Last summer we were hiking in the Ozark mountains with my kids and grandkids. My grandkids started getting hungry along the way. they had already eaten the snacks they brought with them. I pointed out some blueberries growing along the trail and said, "See, God has provided food for you." that was food for now. In that statement I wasn't saying God is providing only blue berries, but rather,that you have what you need at this moment. Later there will be more.

Now I understand that you could maybe still come up with some other rebuttal. But when you factor in the 2nd and 3rd point with the fact that Jesus, who is God, ate fish and meat, you really have to bend and twist scriptures to your own beliefs, which you obviously have strong opinions against.

what say you?

[YoDoug]

3) you could also argue that when God said this is to be your food, that what he meant was, this is to be your food for right now.

You just made my point. If God said that was to be your food right now, as in when he created you, then that would be how he intended you to eat. If God intended us to eat meat then why didn't give those instructions to Adam. Wouldn't he have specified to Adam to eat meat and possibly even gone as far as naming the animals and designating clean/unclean.

[beej]

You just made my point. If God said that was to be your food right now, as in when he created you, then that would be how he intended you to eat. If God intended us to eat meat then why didn't give those instructions to Adam. Wouldn't he have specified to Adam to eat meat and possibly even gone as far as naming the animals and designating clean/unclean.

So as i stated earlier, during the "Swerve post" I don't think the creation story was ever really about food. you are applying "presription" where the story is giving "description". or in other words the story was simply describing life at that moment in time, but you are using those descriptions as a prescription for life. and in so doing, then when God does actually does give prescriptions you have to explain that away as simply being "after the fall" which fails to recognize that when Jesus ate the fish, and when peter had the vision where he was commanded, yes commanded---by God, to eat the beasts. that was all after the resurrection. which is to say the redemption of the fall. in fact in the vision, he says these have all been made clean.

[Tim Johnson]

You're a patient man beej. Well done.

[Tim Johnson]

Doug, if you're looking for a religion that would fit your lifestyle (no meat), search for Seventh-day Adventist World Church Official Website | Adventist.org . The home site is about twenty miles south of me. Their nickname among the local meat eaters is "peanutville". They are good people.

[YoDoug]

So as i stated earlier, during the "Swerve post" I don't think the creation story was ever really about food. you are applying "presription" where the story is giving "description". or in other words the story was simply describing life at that moment in time, but you are using those descriptions as a prescription for life. and in so doing, then when God does actually does give prescriptions you have to explain that away as simply being "after the fall" which fails to recognize that when Jesus ate the fish, and when peter had the vision where he was commanded, yes commanded---by God, to eat the beasts. that was all after the resurrection. which is to say the redemption of the fall. in fact in the vision, he says these have all been made clean.

LOL, Why when God told men how to eat clean versus unclean meat and other "prescriptions" for life was it timeless but when he told Adam that plants/fruit will be for food it is just a moment in time. That's 100% you applying your spin on scripture to fit your needs. I have never said that God didn't allow man to eat meat. I said when he originally created man he intended him to only eat plants, as he instructed him. Look I realize you need to stick your head in the sand about this because if you admit the truth about Gen 1:29-30 then you have to bear the weight of that knowledge in the decisions you make for food.

Several more points to be made here. Genesis says God finished his creation. It was not a work in progress. The food and diet he laid out for Adam was complete based on God's creation, to say it was not is to make God lesser. In Genesis 1:31 God looked at his creation, including Adam and the food he created for Adam and said it is good, not good enough but it will be better when he kills my other creations to eat them. Additionally God allows things that he doesn't like or intend for man because of man's sinful nature. Divorce is one, the bible clearly states God allows divorce, it doesn't mean he intended it to be the norm now.

[YoDoug]

Doug, if you're looking for a religion that would fit your lifestyle (no meat), search for Seventh-day Adventist World Church Official Website | Adventist.org . The home site is about twenty miles south of me. Their nickname among the local meat eaters is "peanutville". They are good people.

I'm not looking for religion. I actually have in-laws that are SDA members. They were one of my first real exposures to plant based eating. My point is simply that Genesis 1:29-30 says God original instruction for man was to eat plant based. In fact it was to be Vegan as he was told to be a good steward to the earth and all of God's creations, not to harm them.

[beej]

Additionally God allows things that he doesn't like or intend for man because of man's sinful nature.

alright, explain this to me, is eating meat sinful?

does it make sense to you that God would not like those things and yet do them, when he was here?

Listen, I don't think there is anything objectionable to being Vegan. For all of the teasing I might do, I, in fact admire your commitment to it. I just don't think you can make a biblical case for it. You might make a scientific case for it, or a societal case for it, but as I explained, you can not make a biblical case for it, since Jesus himself ate meat and fish.

[YoDoug]

alright, explain this to me, is eating meat sinful?

Is drinking alcohol sinful, doing drugs?

[beej]

Is drinking alcohol sinful, doing drugs?

no

[Del.]

no

WHOO HOO !!!

[pmartin]

Is drinking alcohol sinful, doing drugs?

no

Thank GOD. I was getting worried.

[YoDoug]

no

Scratch that. I was going to head down a line of questioning but then I realized it wouldn't matter because you have decided when you will take God's word as "prescription" or "description" based on your interpretation.

[beej]

LOL. I'm doing no such thing. Is there a bible verse that says drinking alcohol is sinful? In scripture there is the Nazerite vow in which a man promises to God not to consume alcohol or cut his hair and to live by other precepts. This is considered "extra" to a life of piety. But there are several obvious verses that encourage the reader to drink alcohol.  (ie, the passover meal, the last supper discourse, Paul's letter to Timothy to have some wine for his belly) Although I would add, that there are also verses that discourage abusing alcohol to the point of being drunk. That is no different than the verses that discourage gluttony and lust. Drunkedness is a sin. drinking alcohol is not. Gluttony is a sin, eating is not. Lust is a sin, sex with your wife is not.

I feel like you probably already understand this. But I don't mind answering any question you have to the best of my ability. I actually enjoy this discussion with you.