The Assimilation Continues

[CNCAppsJames]

I'll pour the coffee and lay out the donuts

.....

Was it the drawn out, stress saga that many believed it would be? Nope, not at all. It was a gradual transition for most parties, done at a realistic pace. All new programming was done in the new application (a few remote instances where urgent stuff was down in the old application), and all the legacy data was maintained using the old system.

...

In my career I've seen migrations from;
SmartCAM
SurfCAM
GibbsCAM
CATIA
NX
Mastercam
Esprit
PowerMill
Fusion360

To;
Fusion360
Mastercam
HyperMill
PowerMill
NX
and
SolidCAM

Each one had it's own challenges depending on many of the criteria you outlined and several others. In most of them, two criteria posed the greatest migration difficulties; learning curve and post processors. The learning curve was more dependent on the differences in workflow in the originating system and the migrated to system that anything else. For example, the greatest challenge I ever saw was a migration from GibbsCAM to NX. Two workflows could not possibly be more dissimilar. Add to that, like CATIA, the VAST majority of NX support is geared towards CAD/Design. There's not a whole lot of NX CAM jocks out in the support world.

Posts posed the next greatest challenge. With the exception of Postability (Mastercam), "Library" Posts usually required a number of revisions. NX was the worst, Postability was the best. The others fell somewhere in between. Almost complete re-writes every time, and the usual hand wringing (i.e. it works fine at X, Y, and Z your machine must be weird...). In terms of working with Post Developers; Postability was the best hands down, In-House was very good, Autodesk's team was not difficult either. NX OTOH... some snot-nosed kid essentially told me I didn't know anything and that I "should stay in my lane". Ok. That's how it's going to be. HyperMill was a close 2nd to to NX. HyperMill and NX have a vested financial interest in rock solid support for Siemens or European controls and almost a clear disdain for FANUC On numerous occasions I heard such and such "controls don't have that 'problem'..." and so it began. Of course, when I tell them, how the code needs to be, invariably there i push back.

When the programmers were on board, base software transition went MUCH better. When Programming was presented with "we're migrating to ..., so you better get on board..." thinkgs tended to not go nearly as smooth. We humans are funny creatures; we do not like having things imposed on us.

All of that said, if it approached the right way, for the right reasons, CAD/CAM migration can be a successful endeavor as long as expectations are managed.

[TSmcam]

NX was the worst

Yep, I agree. When I did a migration to NX quite a few years ago, they got so far, then stalled. I was left to pick up the pieces It was painful, and we never did get them properly finished. In the end, we gave up, because they just werent that helpful, and it was getting expensive.

You are right, if the programmers are on board, then the base software transition can be smooth sailing. In all my experiences of the selection of TS, it was driven by the programmers themselves, and not senior management imposing on them. The programmers saw the benefits of the change, undertstood the path and tasks ahead of making the change, proposed the change in application to management, and then moved forward.

European applications do seem to favour Euro based controls for their posts. TS seem to be pretty neutral. Their Fanuc, Okuma and Mazak out of the box posts are as strong as their Siemens and Heidenhain posts. Their base library posts are pretty dialled, and dont need a lot of tweaking.

[gcode]

We tried a migration from Mastercam to Catia several years ago.
For many reasons it failed miserably and consumed vast quantities of $$$.
The biggest issue was posts and training.
I was stunned to see how bad Catia lathe was and equally shocked to learn
that Catia could not program a tapered NPT thread mill without drawing a tapered helix in CAD.
I remember watching $200/hour worth of Catia geniuses screw with programming an NPT thread mill
for a shift and a half.

[TSmcam]

We tried a migration from Mastercam to Catia several years ago.
For many reasons it failed miserably and consumed vast quantities of $$$.
The biggest issue was posts and training.
I was stunned to see how bad Catia lathe was and equally shocked to learn
that Catia could not program a tapered NPT thread mill without drawing a tapered helix in CAD.
I remember watching $200/hour worth of Catia geniuses screw with programming an NPT thread mill
for a shift and a half.

I remember that episode of the Gcode Volumes Your company really went through the mud with that one, thats for sure.

A local company here looked at Catia. They sent their programmer and designer over to the USA to talk to a couple of Catia users, and to do some initial training to see if it was a good fit.

They came back and said "f**k that". They found it too complex, and they couldnt get commitment from them for the post processors they wanted.

[gcode]

they couldnt get commitment from them for the post processors they wanted.

the only commitment you will ever get from a Catia dealer is that your maintenance bill will make your eyes bleed.

[SuperHoneyBadger]

From my surface understanding, and this is info from my Siemens reseller about a decade ago, NX and Catia are for when you're trying to shave .01 off the drag coefficient of a LeMans car, or worrying about laminar flow around a rocket nosecone and can't do it anywhere else. One of those if you need it, you don't need to ask what it costs situations. That would have been ~2015, when I was in a few training sessions for CAD.

From what it's designed to do, I'm not surprised either would be astonishingly costly.

[CNCAppsJames]

The luster is/has worn off CATIA. If it were not for Boeing it would not exist outside of France.

NX... overhyped... kinf of like Hypershill.

[Zoffen]

I would wager 100lbs of aluminum chips that BobCAM is better than CatiaCAM.....

[Zoffen]

It looks like bobCAM has moduleworks stuff in it as well... Does Catia have moduleworks paths?

https://bobcad.com/products/cad-cam-milling/?source=MILL_TOPNAV

I would download the free trial to test it out but I've heard legend of the bobcam salesforce... once they get your info its relentless....

[gcode]

Does Catia have moduleworks paths?

No, Catia has always had their own 5X toolpaths.
They are extremely powerful and have a myriad of options.
The learning curve is like scaling a cliff.
When they tried to convert this shop to Catia. they purchased an 80 hour
training course for about 10 people, then condensed it to 40 hours due to budgetary and time constraints.
We spent 4 days on CAD, a half day on milling and a half day on lathe.
Needless to say, things did not go well when we started trying to produce NC files.

[JParis]

As the Stomach Churns

Important Update:
Changes to Your Mastercam Communications

We hope this message finds you well. As a valued member of the Cimquest family, we want to keep you informed about some upcoming changes that will affect your experience with us.
 
Starting February 1st, 2025, all communications related to Mastercam—including product offerings, training, subscriptions, maintenance, post processors, and marketing—will be managed directly through Corporate Mastercam and Mastercam.com. Consequently, Mastercam content will be removed from the Cimquest website. This change is designed to streamline your access to the latest updates and resources.
 
Cimquest will continue to support you with our 3D printing, Reverse Engineering, and Scanning products, along with related training and services. You can still find all the information and support you need on cimquest-inc.com.
 
If you're currently receiving marketing communications from us and wish to continue, there's nothing you need to do. However, if you'd like to update your communication preferences, please use the following link.
 
To add or update your Mastercam communication preferences directly with Mastercam, you can do so via this link where you will be prompted to set up a myMastercam account, if you currently have an account you are already registered for Mastercam communications.
 
Thank you for being a part of the Cimquest community. We're here to support you every step of the way.
 
Best regards,
The Cimquest Team

[SuperHoneyBadger]

While there are eyeballs on this topic again, I want to put out a query to the hivemind...

We have a 3+2 machine here that I am getting good at programming, a DMU 50 gen 1, and we have a dialed post for it. We do not have multiaxis, just one Mill seat.

#1 - Are there massive capabilities I am missing in 3+2 by not having multiaxis?
#2 - Will we be able to upgrade our perpetual to multiaxis once the subscriptions kick in? (I know its theoretical, but I had to ask)

[JParis]

#1 - Are there massive capabilities I am missing in 3+2 by not having multiaxis?

Maybe

It really all comes down to "if" you really need to by doing 4 or 5 axis simultaneous cutting. If not, then no, you're not really missing anything. There might be a couple tool paths that are nice to use but beyond that...

#2 - Will we be able to upgrade our perpetual to multiaxis once the subscriptions kick in? (I know its theoretical, but I had to ask)

That really is going to be a question for your current reseller...I am not sure most are really up on where the differing licensing plays into things that may or may not be available to an existing user looking to upgrade.

[SuperHoneyBadger]

Maybe

It really all comes down to "if" you really need to by doing 4 or 5 axis simultaneous cutting. If not, then no, you're not really missing anything. There might be a couple tool paths that are nice to use but beyond that...

What about on a VMC with a rotary A-Axis? I often think about getting simultaneous-movement axis sub to work (needs some post work), but we never actually get anything that needs it - thankfully. Is there any part of Unified that makes 4th axis work better/easier? Like cutting windows in tubes, or drilling at multiple faces?

My thread hijack will be over after this, lol

[JParis]

What about on a VMC with a rotary A-Axis?

Another maybe....my guess is if you haven't needed it to this point, it's probably not an immediate need.

I have programmed a VF2 with e 5 axis trunion with a Mill 1 seat....for myself, I would have to have a need for it to buy it. If I can get it done in what I have, that's what I do