Yesterday's Shooting

[CNCAppsJames]

[quote="Matthew Hajicek" post_id=9799 time=1618859867 user_id=57]

What an idiot. He deserved whatever he got. Should have just pulled out his phone and began filming because we need more zero context police videos on the interwebz.

Yep, I know where you stand.  Any violence an officer commits is automatically justified because the victim should have known better than to ask an officer to act humanely.

[/quote]

Never said "...any violence ... is ...justified...". YOUR words, not mine.

I can look at each instance of alleged whatever on it's own merits unlike you.

[Jeff]

[quote="Matthew Hajicek" post_id=9860 time=1618956972 user_id=57]
Ok, just to be clear here, you believe that if I walk up to an officer and ask him to go easy on someone, that warrants the officer beating me for several minutes until I require hospitalization.  You believe that's a justified use of force.
[/quote]
It's situational and not cut and dry. You can't just give hard guidelines as to protocol when someone approaches.
He was obviously assessed as a threat. We all know you hate cops that's no secret so you'll spin the story or leave out parts to make cops look bad, always.

BTW how many times did you jerk off last night after the Chauvin jury falsely convicted him?

[neurosis]

[quote="Matthew Hajicek" post_id=9861 time=1618957288 user_id=57]

Is there a video of that interaction?  The guy who got pummeled seems to be the only one talking.

"attempted to intervene" could mean anything from being verbal to trying to pull the cops off of protesters.

Can't find a video, but here's the account:

As he stood at the entryway, Kwart noticed two officers arresting a protester who had been pepper-sprayed and injured. Kwart approached and attempted to intervene, telling officers, "Go easy," and "Please relax." An officer then turned on Kwart and shoved him back with his riot shield.

The two officers were then joined by Officer Stephen Anouti and another unnamed officer who charged at Kwart and tackled him to the ground, the complaint states. With Kwart now on the ground, Anouti held Kwart's head to the ground and ground it into the pavement before another officer began to punch him in the face repeatedly, as Kwart was placed in zip ties, video of the incident shows, according to the complaint.

So we have four officers holding the guy down, grinding his face into the pavement, and beating him for several minutes in retaliation for spoken words.
[/quote]

The reason that I asked, is that we only seem to have 'his' account of what happened. I can't say that he's lying, but I can't say that he's not?  

If his account is true, then hopefully he wins his lawsuit. 3 cops vs 1 scrawny neck bearded hipster beating the crap out of him for two minutes seems a little excessive depending on the situation.    

It will be interesting to hear how this turns out.

[Matthew Hajicek]

James and Jeff, you both disgust me.  Especially Jeff.

Even if the cops decided this unarmed scrawny guy was somehow a threat, once they have four cops restraining him on the ground, he's no longer a threat and zero additional force is allowed by law.

[Zoober]

"Go easy" "Please relax..."
"Twak. I got your white privilege right here. "

[Jeff]

[quote="Matthew Hajicek" post_id=9888 time=1619022653 user_id=57]
James and Jeff, you both disgust me.  Especially Jeff.

[/quote]

Awwww gee wiz.  Say it isn't so! I was so worried of what you thought about me!
How will I ever sleep at night knowing that I disgust you?































Like a rock, that's how.

[Shazam/TPP]

Matt, have you had bad/negative encounters with law enforcement? i have always followed their direction and instructed my kids to do so and never had a problem. my son has had his fair share of encounters and has always done the "no sir", "yes sir" and had zero problems. In fact they have thanked him for complying....
there again it was never for robbery, firearms, or anything that "extreme".

[TylerBeer]

Matt, have you had bad/negative encounters with law enforcement? i have always followed their direction and instructed my kids to do so and never had a problem. my son has had his fair share of encounters and has always done the "no sir", "yes sir" and had zero problems. In fact they have thanked him for complying....
there again it was never for robbery, firearms, or anything that "extreme".

You must not have attended many "music events"

[pmartin]

My 2 cents, for what that's worth.

Back in 1977 I was serving in the Army in Ft Hood TX. One night, maybe 9ish I was driving back towards the fort from Kileen, the nearest town where I probably went for some Q. The flashing lights come on behind me and I get pulled over. I was going about ten or fifteen miles over the speed limit. The cop gets me out of the car and has me go to the back to serve me my ticket. When I'm walking to the back of my car I see that the other officer was sheltered behind the police car and he had drawn down on me. Now I am as white as a Lilly excepting freckles.  And those police were ready, willing and prepared to put me down.

BTW I have never had any interaction with the police here in VT that made me feel threatened in the least.

[Shazam/TPP]

You must not have attended many "music events"

i attended my fair share, but then again, didn't act like an ass. we go to plenty of concerts before covid and same thing, have some
drinks and stop early enough so when it comes time to drive you're good.

[Matthew Hajicek]

Matt, have you had bad/negative encounters with law enforcement? i have always followed their direction and instructed my kids to do so and never had a problem. my son has had his fair share of encounters and has always done the "no sir", "yes sir" and had zero problems. In fact they have thanked him for complying....
there again it was never for robbery, firearms, or anything that "extreme".

I've had a few experiences that I'd rather not discuss online.  I have friends who have had worse experiences.  I've read about thousands of others who have had even worse.

I don't like the fact that there's a gang of armed thugs that can kill people and (most of the time) get away with it.  They can falsify evidence, lie in court, and get innocent people convicted, and from what I've read this is not uncommon; even routine in some jurisdictions.  The legal system (I won't say "justice system" is set up to almost force you to accept a plea bargain on any accusation; most people can't afford the right to defend themselves in court.  Cops as they exist today are the antithesis of freedom and the American way.  Any patriot should oppose overreaching police power.

"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."  There are an awful lot of people afraid of the police, and the police like it that way.  Intimidation is their primary tactic.

[Shazam/TPP]

thanks for that reply. It's obvious then that you've had numerous bad experiences and that definitely will leave a bad taste in your mouth.

Here's a question for the group: Who here has had a negative experience with LE for no apparent reason, and still defend people like Chauvin and such, the heavy handed approach?

not sure if that comes across correctly but....

[neurosis]

thanks for that reply. It's obvious then that you've had numerous bad experiences and that definitely will leave a bad taste in your mouth.

Here's a question for the group: Who here has had a negative experience with LE for no apparent reason, and still defend people like Chauvin and such, the heavy handed approach?

not sure if that comes across correctly but....

I was a bit of a shit head when I was younger. I've had more run-ins with LE than I'd like to admit.  

I've had both good and bad experiences.  *Most* of the bad were because I was being an a-hole.  If I kept my mouth shut and complied, then typically the experience went well. Or as well as it could go.  Keep in mind that EVERY time I had a run in with LE it was because of something that either I, or someone I was with, was doing. I think that there were potentially one or two times that I could say that I was being harassed, but they knew who I was and who I hung out with and what went on in the area that I lived at the time.

Having said all of that - I got arrested for under age drinking when I was about 17. We were out in the woods so were quite a ways away from the local PD.  On the way to take me in, there was a call that came in for someone trespassing close to where we were. The car I was in went to pick up the trespasser to get a 2 for 1.  

The entire trip back to the PD, the guy they picked up was spitting on the windows, kicking the back of the seats, hitting his head on the window, threatening to piss on the floor.  Before we got to the PD, the LEO stopped, pulled the guy out of the car, and beat the living shit out of him while he was in hand cuffs. He beat him so bad that the whites of both of his eyes were completely red.    

Needless to say, the guy didn't say another word the rest of the way and neither did I. Was the guy being an a-hole. Sure. I still say what the LEO did was wrong.  

None of these interactions are black and white.  I don't care for the  "all cops are bad" attitude any more than I do the "cops can do no wrong and that guy obviously must have done something wrong" attitude.  I think they have a very difficult job to do. Some times what looks like excessive force may actually be keeping someone from getting hurt more than they have to. Other times, like the example posted earlier, where three cops pummel someone for two minutes (if his story is true) is completely unnecessary and why we are where we are with this today.

[Matthew Hajicek]

Here's one we should all be able to relate to:

On January 28, 2019, plainclothes narcotics officers broke into a house on Harding Street in Houston and killed all three occupants: Dennis Tuttle, a retired 59-year-old machinist; his 58-year-old wife, Rhogena Nicholas; and their dog. The couple's families marked the two-year anniversary of that deadly home invasion by filing federal civil rights lawsuits against the city, its police chief, and 13 officers implicated in the operation.

The raid, which was triggered by a phony tip, was based on a no-knock search warrant that Officer Gerald Goines obtained by falsely portraying Tuttle and Nicholas as -dangerous drug dealers. The centerpiece of Goines' search warrant -affidavit was a fictional heroin purchase by a nonexistent confidential informant. Another narcotics officer, Steven Bryant, backed up Goines' story. Goines and Bryant eventually were charged with several state and federal crimes, including two counts of felony murder against Goines.

Houston Police Chief Art Acevedo, who hailed the cops who killed Tuttle and Nicholas as "heroes" and 10 months after the raid was still dismissing "the chances of this being systemic," would like the story to end there: with two bad apples whose lies led to the regrettable but necessary use of deadly force against two people who, in turned out, were not actually heroin dealers. But the lawsuits argue that the blame extends to 11 other cops who helped instigate the raid, executed it, or allowed it to happen; Acevedo, who has never apologized for posthumously defaming Tuttle and Nicholas or given a full explanation of why they died; and the city, which built a moldy barrel where apples were bound to go bad and spread their rot.

The lawsuit filed by Nicholas' mother and brother says Narcotics Squad 15, which executed the raid, "operated as a criminal organization" that "tormented Houston residents for years." The officers' crimes included "search warrants obtained by perjury," "false statements submitted to cover up the fraudulent warrants," "improper payments to informants," "illegal and unconstitutional invasions of homes," "illegal arrests," and "excessive force."

Goines, whom Acevedo initially described as "a big teddy bear" who was "tough as nails" and had "tremendous courage," worked in narcotics for 25 years. According to news reports and court documents, he routinely lied to obtain no-knock search warrants, framed innocent people, handled evidence recklessly, carried on a sexual relationship with a confidential informant, and stole public money.

Goines was not the only allegedly corrupt officer in Squad 15. Since the Harding Street raid, Harris County District -Attorney Kim Ogg has charged a dozen current or former narcotics officers with felonies, including lies about overtime and drug purchases.

"Houston Police narcotics officers falsified documentation about drug -payments to confidential informants with the support of supervisors," Ogg said in July. "Goines and others could never have preyed on our community the way they did without the participation of their supervisors; every check and balance in place to stop this type of behavior was -circumvented."

Acevedo argues that Goines' colleagues acted in good faith based on a warrant they believed was valid and should not be held responsible for his fabrications. In January, after a Harris County grand jury indicted Officer Felipe Gallegos for murdering Tuttle, Acevedo reiterated his position that the cops "responded appropriately" to the "deadly threat" they encountered after they broke in the door and immediately opened fire, killing the dog with a shotgun.

An independent forensic examination commissioned by the Tuttle and Nicholas families cast doubt on key parts of Acevedo's story, including the justification for shooting the dog and the claim that Nicholas, who was unarmed, posed an imminent threat. The physical evidence indicates that the cops, who said Tuttle responded to the violent invasion of his home by grabbing a revolver and shooting at the intruders, blindly and wildly fired dozens of rounds. Tuttle—who supposedly fired four rounds, hitting one cop in the shoulder, two in the face, and one in the neck—was frail and disabled, which his family says makes that feat implausible.

Both families argue that the city's "policies, customs or practices," including inadequate training and lax supervision, invited Fourth Amendment violations. They say the city has refused to answer basic questions about what happened during the raid, which was not recorded by body cameras. "It's been two years now," said John Nicholas, Rhogena's brother. "We're not going to quit until we get answers."

https://reason.com/2021/04/22/a-phony-warrant-a-deadly-drug-raid-and-a-barrel-of-bad-apples-in-houston/">https://reason.com/2021/04/22/a-phony-w ... n-houston/">https://reason.com/2021/04/22/a-phony-warrant-a-deadly-drug-raid-and-a-barrel-of-bad-apples-in-houston/

[TylerBeer]

I've had my fair share in attending, and organizing music shows where there cops were absolute complete dicks for no reason. They took a perfectly fine situation and escalated.

I've had cops try to search my car/trailer illegally many times.

A friend of mine, a 5'2 woman who weighs 130lbs was roughed up by the cops on a traffic stop without cause.  There's footage - she's two years into the lawsuit with no end in sight.  It's not so easy.