the switch

[Matthew Hajicek]

Apparently, you have not heard John Lennons "Imagine"


Please explain this.

A turtle lays eggs on the dunes of a beach.

The eggs hatch and immediately head to the Ocean.

You don't see them heading to the airport or The Highway.

How do they know??

Chemicals?? They were just a clump of cells inside a shell?

Instincts? That would require Thought ...No??

I get the impression you're typing on instinct, rather than putting a lot of thought into this.  The answers to your vague and poorly worded questions are so painfully obvious they don't warrant answering, but I know you would take a lack of an answer as proof you were right.  A high school level of biology would have saved you the trouble of asking.

As you know, a baby turtle has a functional brain.  That brain has been constructed according to genetic instructions, and structured with certain instincts in place.  Millions of years of evolution and selective pressures have eliminated the ones whose genetics did not construct a brain with sufficient survival instincts.

But sometimes, yes, you do see them heading for the airport or the highway, and dying in large numbers, because they haven't had enough generations exposed to pavement to evolve an aversion to it.

[beej]

In what sense?  What do you believe exists that is not "worldly"?

Agape love, mercy, forgiveness, etc.

[Matthew Hajicek]

Agape love, mercy, forgiveness, etc.

Those are all mental processes, which occur in the electrochemical computer that is your brain.

[Del.]

Those are all mental processes, which occur in the electrochemical computer that is your brain.

You are a very smart man but Beej's answer is one you can't understand even though you will keep analyzing to satisfy only yourself. 

[Incogneeto]

So...the chemical reaction makes "feelings" for someone/thing?
Then how is that stored and remembered?
To then latterly trigger the same "feelings" which then trigger the same chemical reaction?
I assume?
Or is it the other way around (chicken then egg?)?

It's Egg and Turtle Dommbass stick with the program....

[Incogneeto]

I get the impression you're typing on instinct, rather than putting a lot of thought into this.  The answers to your vague and poorly worded questions are so painfully obvious they don't warrant answering, but I know you would take a lack of an answer as proof you were right.  A high school level of biology would have saved you the trouble of asking.

As you know, a baby turtle has a functional brain.  That brain has been constructed according to genetic instructions, and structured with certain instincts in place.  Millions of years of evolution and selective pressures have eliminated the ones whose genetics did not construct a brain with sufficient survival instincts.

But sometimes, yes, you do see them heading for the airport or the highway, and dying in large numbers, because they haven't had enough generations exposed to pavement to evolve an aversion to it.

In My Biology class a man was a Man, and a woman was a Woman. (1970's)

I'm sure in your advanced class the definition may be different.

I would not define your intelligence by the classroom taught to you.

But as you have limited time to deal with someone so unschooled as myself.

You are wrong.

[beej]

Those are all mental processes, which occur in the electrochemical computer that is your brain.

Yes, well, my mental processes have been hijacked, by an unmoved mover, who desires those qualities in all human beings.

[Matthew Hajicek]

So...the chemical reaction makes "feelings" for someone/thing?
Then how is that stored and remembered?
To then latterly trigger the same "feelings" which then trigger the same chemical reaction?
I assume?
Or is it the other way around (chicken then egg?)?

Do you guys really not understand basic biology? I'm really taken aback.  I thought this was common knowledge.  It's really very simple stuff at this basic level.

Yes, your feelings, thoughts, and memories are simply patterns of atoms and electrical charge in your head.  There is nothing else, nothing magic or mystical going on.

It's been known for 200 years that damaging or removing small portions of the brain will destroy specific memories or mental abilities.  Stimulating small areas of the brain can trigger memories, emotions, sensations, etc. depending on exactly where the stimulation takes place.  If your memories and feelings were in a mystical ghost, or "soul", then your mind would remain intact until you died, wouldn't it?

About a decade ago, a researcher made a successful memory prosthetic (computerized memory assister attached to a biological brain) in a rodent.  More recently, this is beginning to be done in humans:

https://neurosciencenews.com/prosthetic-memory-8699/

As further evidence that your thoughts are physical, they can be read out (crudely so far) by machine:

https://www.livescience.com/53535-computer-reads-thoughts-instantaneously.html

[Del.]

Just imagine what you don't know!!!

[neurosis]

Just imagine what you don't know!!!

I just make stuff up as I go and rely on everyone else to not know what I'm talking about.   

[beej]

Those are all mental processes, which occur in the electrochemical computer that is your brain.

would you consider those mental processes (agape love, forgiveness, mercy) which occur through simple electrochemical processes to be instinct rather than conscious thought?

[Matthew Hajicek]

would you consider those mental processes (agape love, forgiveness, mercy) which occur through simple electrochemical processes to be instinct rather than conscious thought?

I think they can be both.  Though conscious thought is an emergent phenomena based on instinct.

[Matthew Hajicek]

Nope.
Sorry Matt for being a total dickhead.
I've been doing many other things all my life and hadn't had any time or inclination to read about this subject.
However, i now do have time....

When I was a kid I'd read the Science News magazines my folks got.  Now I read several science and technology news aggregator sites daily.  Phys.org could be a good place to start.

[beej]

I think they can be both.  Though conscious thought is an emergent phenomena based on instinct.

So, where does conscious thought come from and how did it develop? and next question: Why does it seem to be so rare in the natural world? And third question, why does conscious thought (which is just electric impulses) give a human being rights, that a human being without conscious thought would not have?

[Shazam/TPP]

All stems from the forbidden tree of knowledge